So!...oh you're Rich and Hate to have your Petunia's eaten,that's too bad!!

You could also move,this is Mentor not Cleveland,Duh !!

YES. Feed the people.

There's more to it than you think,seriously!!...there's the Autopsies they are doing,and lots more.

He's the city manager. Believe it or not, the man can (and should) have more than one concern at a time. Just because he's working on a deer culling program, doesn't mean every other issue in the city is no longer being addressed. Get out of the hockey rink once in a while and attend or tune into a city council meeting before expression such a ill-informed opinion.

Thank You! They do have their priorities dont they?!

Citation needed. Please be specific when noting the exact instances when sharpshooters culling deer has ended "with disastrous results". And yes, I'd consider some police sharpshooters. Most have had more firearms training, including accuracy/sharpshooting, than 99% of the population. Also, don't forget where this is taking place. Large tracts of city owned land that will be cordoned off to public use. They're not going to be in your back yard, Rich, though I'm not opposed to that either.

There's deer overpopulation problem in this city as a result of development taking their living space and a lack of predators. They do a significant amount of property damage, and pose a serious danger to drivers. Those are easily found facts. It's your prerogative if you choose to ignore them, and it's your opinion if you feel culling the herd isn't the appropriate response. Fortunately, a majority of the citizens here don't feel that way, as evidenced by the action their representatives have taken on the matter.

Abe: You wrote, ". . . [deer] pose a serious danger to drivers. Those are easily found facts." You happen to be dealing with lay experts who've done OPRs in various communities in NE Ohio. For instance, in one nearby community, there were zero, zilch, no injuries to humans related to DVCs In fact, most of them were actually caused by poaching. Rutting season, according to national experts -- not those bio-stitutes sent out by the Ohio Div, of Wild"Death" -- does not correlate w/ DVCs; but guess what does: hunting b/c terrified and injured deer run into roadways. You also wrote, "a majority of the citizens here don't feel that way, as evidenced by the action their representatives have taken on the matter," meaning most people in Mentor want deer killed. That's interesting, because in my five years' experience working with city leaders and officials across NE Ohio, there's one thing I've learned -- and this is literally without exception -- that not only are most residents opposed to any lethal methods to "control" deer (as if that actually works), but there is always one or two city officials w/ ties to hunters, or are hunters themselves, and that's the only reason it's being proposed. Mentor is making a tragic mistake. You will all have to live with the consequences of the Pandora's Box you've opened beginning today. Look at Solon. When the devil lies, he has to keep lying to cover up the first one.

http://www.publicsafety.ohio.gov/links/2011CrashFacts.pdf

24,000+ accidents in Ohio from deer (8% of total) and 1% of fatalities. While I don't agree that terrified and hunting-injured deer cause most vehicle crashes (hunting season is a short portion of the whole year), using your arguement you should be happy to hear of a culling program that utilizes knowledgeable sharpshooters that will institute quick and accurate kills at close range.

As for your other allegation: are you saying that Mentor Council members have unethical ties to hunters or are in some way benefiting from a deer culling program more than rest of our citizens? Please expand on that thought.

Let's hear all about these more humane ways. I'm VERRRY interested, as I'm sure you've done your research.

That's right, Lynn. And let's not forget that the Plain Dealer or another affilate media outlet published an article last year (2012) stating that Mentor was going to use experimental methods, as well as the proven method of DeerDeter to keep deer from crossing when cars are around. I guess that would be too easy, and not bloody enough for the taste of those who've obviously already begun to murder the deer in Mentor, even before the state issued permits. Thanks, Mentor, for ruining my childhood memories of frolicking in the Mentor beaches with my family.

Lynn, I am with you; Mentor lets the city be over developed without a plan for wildlife, corridors, or land conservation. In the long run, it costs taxpayers more out-of-pocket. The fix; start propaganda,make money & destroy what means very little.
But I see Abe does not have a reply button? But my comment is to him; Abe please tell me about the Mentor Police reports you have seen? You are stating facts but I would like to know specifically where you are getting them. I ask because I received accident statistics directly from the Mentor and Mentor on the Lake Police departments for years since it is public record. Their own records report less than 2% are caused by "unknown" which is where they categorize a cat, dog, squirrel, skunk, garbage can lid, etc. suddenly crossing the path of a moving vehicle. Somewhere in that 2% fall deer; they were not sure what the exact deer number was they told me????. Of all the accidents, injuries, deaths and citations in Mentor, 98% were "human" caused!! Less than 2% were "other" where deer might fall.
I

I already sited my source. Ohio Department of Public Safety. See link to report above. No, I didn't personally review every accident report in Mentor over the last 20 years. But safety is just one issue. Personally, I'm more concerned about property damage, but again that's just one facet of the problem.

So let me throw this out there: If you had a grub infestation in your yard, destroying it, what would you do? Apply a chemical grub control that kills them? Many people do. In my opinion, if you're smart, you'd spread milky spore as a long term solution, but now you're introducing a bacteria that will slowly kill the grub from within. And milky spore is supposedly the "green" method. But grubs aren't cute and fuzzy like deer, so who cares about them, right? Or would introducing a bacteria to my vegetable gardens that causes deer to rot from within over the course of a month, just like the pesky grub, be preferable option to culling? I'm just curious where everyone who wants to save the deer draws their line. You know, how ugly does the animal have to be before you don't care if you kill it?

And for the record, I feel the same way about geese as I do about deer, though they are more of a nuisance than anything else (unless you own a golf course). But that's another topic, I guess.

I believe the meat goes to local food pantries after it is processed but I will double check.

Reading comprehension issues? He said "if the city STOPPED trying to manage the deer population, the deer's numbers would quickly rebound."

The deer are a serious problem in Mentor, this is the most humane and cost effective way of dealing with that problem.

Lucy, do you know if the city receives a percentage of the money from the hunting licenses?

The city does not receive money from hunting licenses. That money all goes to the State. The city came up with their own permits for hunting within the city limits, but I don't believe they charge for them (they should charge a few bucks to cover admin of the program, in my opinion)

It's all about the money, and you know it.

Fewer than 200 people die across American each year in relation to DVCs. It gets really old, people, having to repeat this fact: lethal methods used to "control" deer populations is a myth perpetuated by the Ohio Division of Wild"Death" to maintain its annual revenue of tens of millions. It ALWAYS results in rebound. The DOW is to blame completely for deliberately maintaining maximum sustainable yield of deer. I think DOW should have a class action suit leveled against it for causing increased DVCs; even the industry's largest carriers know there's a direct correlcation between hunting and DVCs. Nationa experts on wildlife have their ears: they know that it's hunting, not deer rutting, that causes them to run into roadways November through Feb.

You don't have to die to have serious injury or property damage. And you two ladies are the only ones in this article or comment section saying that rutting (or hunting) is causing more accidents or property damage. Either may be true, but I think most people would agree that overpopulation and habitat reduction are exponentially greater causes, both of which have nothing to do with ODNR or ODOW. My neighborhood's gardens, landscaping, and yards get completely destroyed by deer in the middle of June, and no one's hunting then.

So again I ask, if population reduction isn't the answer, what's your solution? I see one option of putting up things with flashing lights and sounds to scare deer away. First off, do we think that's feasible for all the roads in Mentor? Lake County? Ohio? And we're not talking about rural deer here. These are practically domesticated, and I'm sure they'll be ignoring those devices very quickly. BUT, lets say they're not. Let's assume two things which I personally don't agree with. Let's assume we have enough money to put "deer scaring" devices all over the city, and let's assume they actually work: Where are the deer going and what is controlling their population? Scaring them out of the roads isn't keeping them from procreating. You keep saying that hunting/culling doesn't work because the population rebounds when you stop. Even if that were the case, at least the population wouldn't have the explosive growth we have now.

Oh, I forgot about deer birth control. Well, did anyone ever think that the deer might be Catholic?

Yes, and a sane person would see the irony and the horror.

Lucy needs to spend more time with people vs. deer.

I don't care about animals more than people; I care about them as much as I care about people. Besides, the way people treat fellow creatures ALWAYS results in the way they treat other people, which has been overwhelmingly documented by mental health professionals, law enforcement personnel and those who see the results daily. This is a cross-cultural phenomenon, and Americans are particularly vulnerable to the false, twisted Biblical belief that humans having dominion over animals translates to exploitation. Lastly, if I were pressed to admit it, yeah, I'm PROUD to care more about animals. What people like you don't seem to understand is that people like me honestly don't have a problem with being that way, or perceived that way. Why would I WANT to be perceived any other way than compassionate towards all living creatures. I think that people who treat animals as if they are "less than" are mentally imbalanced and sick spiritually. If you spent more time researching, synthesizing and analyzing all sides of the issues, you would see things the way I do. But you will read, at most, about half of this post, and then move on to your planet- and animal-destroying hamburger.

OMG, you're right. If a woman were to step on the birth control dart, we'd have -- oh, the horror -- less people on the planet. Are you pro-life? You can't be pro-life, but eat, wear, kill animals.

"But you will read, at most, about half of this post, and then move on to your planet- and animal-destroying hamburger."

Nope, I read it all and now wish I hadn't. There is zero dealing with a rabid vegetarian. Good day.

I quit growing a Vegetable garden and go down to Perry and make my purchases to help out the Small Farmer,and bought real nice fake flowers,I got lots if compliments,they thought they all were real.I don't mind the Deer at all,everybody acts like they walk all over on the roads,I live on Hendricks,and I have no complaints.They'll die at old age just like any other animals.I believe the more they kill in the residential areas,they'll smell the blood and head further maybe towards the Freeway area,leave the ones alone in our Neighborhoods and especially at Veterans Park. :-)

Leocadia, you said "They'll die at old age just like any other animals."

Except that at current population levels, more will starve to death than die of old age. The culling not only helps them stay in their natural habitat, it makes it so that more will live and not die a slow, painful death.

Do a google search under "Kirkpatrick, gonacon or PZP" and "actual cost for birth control of deer" and you will see that, when done properly, birth control for deer can cost just $1 per deer; Solon spent $400 on each deer sharpshooted.

"Amen"

you are so right Do you know that they are killing mostly does and not the bucks and that comes straight from Bob Martin's mouth when we talked to him on the phone. Abe Froman's wife probably isn't allowed out of the kitchen until she is done cooking his supper. That is if he has a wife and God help her if he does. You can tell he is afraid that women might know more then he does. Lucy you are well educated and informed. I have called Bob Martin and told him how i feel. now they are going to do the culling in Veteran's park on MLK day when kids are out of school so more kids can be endangered if they go into the park. Who's bright idea was this. A mans bright idea from Mentor Police Dept

"Amen"

Yeah, I hear you. Rabid vegetarians will never have a rational discussion about anything involving animals. I'm done with this too.

Happy deer hunting!

How did you know that was my heavenly dream?

The deer are talking!

this is just target practice for some overpaid police officers to get their jollies. If we have this many extra police officers we should be looking at making some cuts in our budget. Shooting firearms in our backyards with no regards for our pets or children is just ridiculous. Every yard on the east side of Grovewood Dr backs up to Veterens park and there is no way in hell to know that no one has entered the park while this cops are playing wild wild west. I know that i will be out there watching and taping while all this goes on. They better hope that not one bullet goes somewhere it shouldn't As a taxpayer I'm disappointed that the city is doing this without getting more input from the voters. I feel that this should be handled in a non violent manner. what are we teaching our children. we already have students killing each other at school. put this money towards protecting our children so they can go to school and feel safe.

Sheesh,I was scolded by the Mentor Police for shooting at the many Geese in my yard with a Cheapy Paintball gun,that day there were about 15 of them and a few were fighting,I can't stand that they think my property is theirs so I shoo them away with a PaintBall gun,Shame On Me!!

I'm pretty sure there's some kind of violation going on here with police killing deer. There may be a loophole within the state, or some other branch of gov't, that would make this illegal or unconstitutional. Any attorneys out there want to try your hand at this?

yes! see how Broadview Hts., OH did it: https://sites.google.com/site/broadviewdeer/ and see how Rochester Hills, Michigan reduced DVAs by one quarter in spite of seeing a 34 percent increase in deer!: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2011/11/_animals_in_the_news_70.html and know that residents and leaders in many other communities in Ohio and other states are refusing to kill deer, not only because they know it doesn't fix the "problem," but also because it's wrong.

Just signed it, FB shared and sent emails to dozens. Did you include email address on the "edit petition" link to this? It's a good idea to include ALL city leaders' addresses, and then keep checking to make sure they don't mysteriously disappear, like mine did DOZENS of times when I created a change.org petition entitled "Abolish deer hunting in Ohio." Even the site managers couldn't explain it.

Add the Dept. of the Interior email address to your petition: feedback@ios.doi.gov AND add this email address for Ohio Dept. Natural Resources: james.zehringer@dnr.state.oh.us. BTW, did you know Obama's Sec'y to the Interior, Salazar, just left?

Also, add Midwest FIsh and Wildlife Svcs. to the petition: MidwestNews@fws.gov

Lucy, I sent a very descriptive email to the League of Humane Voters and never even got a response. Do you have a Ohio contact?

Yes, I do. How shall we get a hold of ea. other? Can you send a friend request through FB? I'm the one with the thumbnail image of a buck dressed in camouflage bearing a rifle with a tied-up hunter hanging from it; I'm not kidding :)

Bob Martin stated that you shouldn't see a deer while walking in the park. Are you kidding me . I thought that's what are parks are for, so we can enjoy nature not terminate it. I for one will not vote for another Lake Metro Parks levy. Why even have parks at all and may i remind people that the animals were here first.

Just because you apparently don't have a job and can spam this thread all day doesn't mean you are a victor, it simply means you can't stop talking to yourself.

Complain all you want about precious little Bambi, what's done is done and regardless of how you feel, this is a good thing for everyone.

Amen, Ryan.

I don't hate anything, in fact, I enjoy the deer. Problem is, they're over populated and starving to death. I see it as a mercy to put them down quickly rather than let them starve to death, which they will.

So, while all the bambi lovers talk about how cruel it is, those of us in the real world realize that while unfortunate, this is necessary.

Yes it is WRONG,watch the Video from in the Fall talking about the Bow Hunting,it's mostly older people who really hate Animals and the one guy seemed drunk talking about his Hostas,rabbits eat them too,protect if need be,DUH,..Kill Beautiful Deer cuz they eat your shrubs,sheeesh.every Lil critter out here needs to eat,the Squirrels eat my bulbs,oh well,get some more,lol

Well, you could say it like this:

"Well Johnny, the reason that the deer herd was culled was due to overpopulation. You see, when a herd outgrows it's environs, the deer have to compete for food. As this happens, the deer venture farther and farther away from their home in the forest. When that starts to happen, the risk of the deer being killed in car accidents rises dramatically. It also puts humans in danger. When they can't find food, they'll start eating yours and you can't have a garden or flowers. When you stop growing food or find a way to keep the deer from eating it, they starve to death. This takes weeks and is agonizing and a terrible way to die. So, in the interest of not only us humans, but the deer as well, we thin the herd and they bounce back and prosper because there's enough food for all of them."

That should do it.

The large herds are eating landscaping bare, deer scat (impossible to clean up) is everywhere, and I'm concerned about deer ticks and disease. Fifteen years ago it was a treat to see a deer occasionally. Now there are three to a dozen or more out every day on residential streets and not sweet little Bambies. They don't back away from humans and some look menacing. Old timers have warned me that they can seriously injure people. I bet if someone's grandchild was injured by a deer, there would be a lawsuit so fast against the city for not addressing this real problem.

"Culling is one thing but this is not culling it is extinguishing."

No, it's culling. Normal population levels are 10-20 deer per square mile, Mentor has around 33 per square mile. That's 33% more than normal. Taking 150 or so out of the equation helps the deer survive, sorry you cannot grasp this concept.

"What part of rebound do you not get"

What part of THERE ARE TOO MANY RIGHT NOW, do you not get? Yes, rebounding CAN be an issue, but if the city manages the herd properly, there shouldn't be an issue like we do now.

"We will have the deer back again and again."

Back? They're not being eliminated down to the last deer, so they're not going anywhere.

"There are other cities in other states using sterilization and it works and is less expensive in the long run."

No, not it's not. The absolute LEAST expensive option is a cull.

"Do you not get the reason rthe state will not give permission to cull without a hunting program in place.If you are so smart why hasen't that occured to you?????????"

Uh, because it needs regulated? You don't want just any bubba with a bow to go around shooting things. Why is this even a question?

"Who's fault is it that the deer have nothing to eat? Could it possibly be ,irresponsible development of the land?"

Do you grasp the concept of supply and demand? There is a set supply amount, that can't really change, but the demand goes up the more and more deer that are born, ergo the supply cannot keep up.

Leocadia Sigi -- Funny how people like you have to say things like "what drugs are you on?" etc. when you can't just say whatever you want not backed by any kind of facts. You can't take anyone disagreeing with your pie in the sky view of the deer population. Go up to one and have a conversation with it if you dare. . . Maybe one will knock some sense into you . . .

Leocadia, I live on a large wooded lot and have deer come by all the time. Never, I repeat never have they threatened me or caused me to be concerned for my safety. To show support for the deer of Mentor I am telling all my friends to display their Christmas lights until the KILLING STOPS! Pass this on to all your friends.